Coaching Meets Marketing

In this episode of the Get Coached podcast, I sit down with host Chris Ippolito to discuss coaching in general terms, and then focus more on answering specific questions he has for me.

To watch or listen to the interview please visit the embedded video and audio links at the bottom of this post.

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• And you can use this link to find the podcast on YouTube.
• And you can also use this link to find the podcast on BitChute.

Some of the key points in this episode are:

• Why you should only work with clients who are actively engaged, and directly communicate a need for exponential growth.
• Setting thought-out S.M.A.R.T. goals will get you further than simply working hard.
• Decide what you are willing to exchange to achieve your goals, and why you should do the same thing with potential clients.
• How talking about the tools of your trade can cost your business and be counterproductive.
• Why it’s important to master the art of digital marketing to build your brand.

Here’s the automated transcription for those interested in reading through it. Please remember this is AI-derived. In this particular instance, Chris, the interview host, is Speaker 2 and I’m Speaker 1.

Speaker 2: Hi, I’m Chris Eppolito and welcome to the get coached podcast where I’m documenting my journey from employee to entrepreneur while featuring the coaches that are helping me along the way. Each episode, these coaches provide actual advice to help me and you the audience find more success as entrepreneurs. I invite you to join the journey so we could go and grow together. Mm Welcome to another episode of the get coach podcast. In this episode, I sat down with David Somerfleck. David is a digital marketing specialist with over 20 years experience working with Fortune 500 companies like Microsoft and AOL time Warner and small business owners. David and I talked about why it’s important to focus on strategy and outcomes when working with clients and not the tools and how you achieve their desired outcomes. Please enjoy this conversation with David. Som reflect Hi David.
Speaker 1: Hi, how’s it going, chris.
Speaker 2: I’m doing great. Thanks for being a guest on the Get Coached podcast. Um It’s great to have you here and I I want to just jump right in and and how you share with the audience who you are, what’s your story and let’s get to know you a little bit better.
Speaker 1: Sure, well, first of all, thank you for inviting me on your podcast. I think it’s important for people to Be cordial today, especially with so much going on in the world. My name is David. Summer Fleck. I am a digital marketing specialist and basically a business growth expert with about 20 plus years experience working for multiple marketing agencies and advertising agencies. I was also a certified small business mentor for Score, which is a division of the United States Small Business administration. And during that time I also had training as a political campaign consultant which we called messaging. Um So I have about that experience. I was also uh college professor, I taught journalism and english. Um In addition to that and I would say Based on my experience working for multiple marketing agencies and those 10 years or so working with score with small business owners as well and then freelancing on my own. I was also a mediator and I’ve also written a book. Um So based on that experience, I think I slowly began to feel over the years that I have something to offer the business owner who is really focused on growth. And that’s an important distinction to make because not all business owners or entrepreneurs necessarily want to grow or they may want to grow better but are not able. Right. Right. Or the other issues that could be family members holding them back. So it’s an important distinction to make. Do you want to grow? Are you able to grow? Do you need it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it’s because with growth will come new challenges, new commitments, new responsibilities.
Speaker 1: Absolutely
Speaker 2: that it may not necessarily be more time because if you’re building the business properly, I think a lot of people would say you shouldn’t have to invest more time than you’re already but your your your roles and responsibilities might change and do you actually want that right So
Speaker 1: I can give you a very very brief example of this when I used the network very heavily. I used to go a lot of networking events and speak at all kinds of events and seminars and anyway I was talking to a woman who had a second hand clothing store and she would also work with local artisans. So we were talking about marketing and I had a little bit too much caffeine that day and I said you know you could do X, y and Z and they’ll probably rank you number one in google. I mean given what I knew about her business And 100% true. She looked at me and said Oh I don’t want to be number one in Google I’d have more people calling me I’d have more emails coming in and more people coming into the store God be double the workload for me. I don’t have the money to hire any any extra help, I don’t want to do that.
Speaker 2: Right, that’s so interesting. And
Speaker 1: at the time my wife was with me and I looked at my wife and she just gave me that look like look let’s go. Yeah that’s you know I think
Speaker 2: it’s super interesting because you’d think as a business owner there’s a certain kind of mindset that you would have that you would want you I I think I would just make the assumption like I assume you want to grow your business and keep growing it and turn it into something more. But no like that I find that sort of strange,
Speaker 1: there’s a profound disconnect and when I see these things, I don’t mean it in a harsh way. Um as you can see behind me, I try to be like the big guy there, I don’t always succeed, but I try and the one thing I always try to remember is look when you talk to other people, you may want to help them, you may be like ahab’s cabin boy to use a literary metaphor. Um and you may be thinking man, there’s so much I could do, oh my God I could take this mechanic and automate all these processes and save them so much money and overhead and all this all this, they have to be in a place where they can conceive it, they want it, they needed enough that they’re willing to invest. That’s the big thing because the number one issue you hear is money. How much is a website? How much is our ceo I’ve heard that, How much is E commerce? How much is consulting on and on and on? And I always say depending on my mood, I can say well look how much is a piece of string, how much is a car? It depends, how long do you want to drive for? I used to have a friend who bought a used motorcycle and he paid $50 and it lasted just long enough for the seller to get out of town, You know, which was about two days. And uh so I mean, it’s the thing is then I say this in my book, the road to digital marketing profits, and this is why I wrote it, not because I think I’m, you know, I was a genius or something, but it just, I kept seeing this coming up over and over again. You want to get here, but you’re here, so you want to get from point A to point B. I want more customers. I want more clients. How whatever that means to you, it could be more people coming into a salon, It could be more people coming to a mechanic. It could be more uh patients at a doctor’s office, whatever it is, more and more customers at a restaurant, placing orders, whatever that is, that’s what you want and you’re over here not getting it. So what I try to do is say, look, what are you willing to do to get from here to here? It doesn’t usually job usually doesn’t equate if that makes sense. So what I try to do is first, you know, they’re fixated on tools. How much is sc, oh, how much is a website and what I try to do is say, look, let’s talk about your goals first and why these have meaning to you then I can knock down and kind of whittle out what the specific objectives are because for all I know let’s take you as an example because you’re sitting here. It could be that you want more coaching clients and you can see that in general and want more coaching clients. Well that doesn’t help me as a marketer. What kind of coaching clients? What kind of, what kind of coaching do you provide? What’s your your niche? What are your local demographics? Who else is doing that where you live in your city and state? So I can understand the competition, right? What is your unique selling proposition That makes you different from the other 10 million other coaches out there? Right? And then we can focus on, Okay, well what’s this worth to you? What is one new client per month worth to you? So if we if we look at a lawyer right, a new client for a lawyer could be anywhere from a few grand, could be much, much more depending on what their legal issue is. So one new client per month for patent attorney Could be worth 30 grand could be worth a lot more. one new client per month for a divorce attorney Could be $100,000. If they work with a certain high end type of clientele right? Whereas if you have an idea for a business and you haven’t tested it out, what’s your budget going to be very negligible because you don’t know if it’s gonna work your living hand to mouth. So as much as I love startups, sometimes I may not want to work with a startup Because they haven’t tested their concept necessarily. They may not have a budget that I could do any work for. I mean if their budget is $500, what can I do with that? You know, PPC, which is paid advertising, facebook linkedin advertising can be very expensive and to get traction, it’s usually a couple grand per month. The average small business owner isn’t going to spend that, right?
Speaker 2: So because um I like to ask questions that are relevant to me and then hopefully relevant to the audience being in that startup position. Um I guess what would be some of the advice that you would provide to that type of person? Obviously like working with them one on one is different because there’s, like you said, there’s a certain requirement that you need and that’s as you evolve in business, that’s, that ends up happening. You start picking and choosing who you want to work with. But obviously the knowledge that you have still applies to the startup. So what would be something, let’s put it this way, what’s the, the primary focus for a startup when it comes to, let’s say they’ve proven their their business concept though, I don’t know if I have quite yet, but we’ve proven the business concept, We know there’s a demand for it, but we don’t have the budget to start like the paid advertisement. What would be other approaches or the number one focus I guess for them?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there’s always a demand for what you do. Always a demand. So the question is, do you demand it? Are you willing? You know, everybody knows everybody in marketing knows Gary Vaynerchuk, Gary V Okay. There’s some points that he makes, I agree with and some I don’t, but he always his main point. If you watch his videos, he always, basically, in my opinion, he says the same thing work really hard, work, really hard posture, gut worked really hard. That doesn’t do it for everyone and everything. It’s not about setting goals or working hard all the time. It’s about setting smart goals. No. Um, you know, if you use the analogy of wrestling when I was in high school, I was athletic, you probably wouldn’t know it by looking at me, but it’s like someone who is a technical wrestler could always easily overcome a really big muscular guy because they would take you apart like a surgeon, they knew exactly what to do what part to go for and everything. You could never beat them, you know, unless you have more skills and more training. So it’s about setting methodical Goals and that’s what I do when I work with clients. Number one And I’m sure you focus in on that too. You could have a client tell you my goal is to make $1 million dollars in two weeks or whatever. And that’s always the same. Everybody wants that. It never works out like that. If you read the biographies of all the people on shark tank, you see the common denominator is none of them got there overnight. It took them decades, robert, Herjavec worked for free for years at a computer startup. Who can do that? I don’t I don’t know what his situation was. I don’t know what the situation was. But that’s what he said. He worked for free. Yeah. I think
Speaker 2: in his story because his he came from a quite a poor family if I remember it. So he probably was just so used to living at like this much lower standard that everybody else was. So that he was, he just got accustomed to it. So being able to work for free or wherever it was like he probably could just, he just was able to deal with it. Whereas for I think the most average north american we would struggle big time for working for free even knowing because we go like I need the money now because I have this certain standard of living, I want to live
Speaker 1: and really
Speaker 2: the value of knowledge long term obviously look at him right,
Speaker 1: right. Everybody has bills to pay God help you if you get sick. You know I mean I had to have hernia surgery recently and I remember looking at the bill and if I hadn’t had uh, the benefits that I had, Which are not cheap by the way, um, I think the bill would have been something like five grand and I had to stop the playoffs to recently so I could breathe a little bit better. The bill for that without the benefits would have been 25 grand. Now. The average person I read somewhere statistic that said the average american Is one paycheck away from being homeless.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it’s, I’m sure Canada is pretty much the same. Um, I, I used to work in the financial industry, so I got to see firsthand most people’s bank accounts and
Speaker 1: you know, it’s true,
Speaker 2: it didn’t paint a very pretty picture. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it’s it’s very, very real. And um, so what I always do is say, look, let’s look at your situation first. Let’s realistically get to know your situation. What is it that you want to do and why? What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to build a mobile barbershop or whatever it is that you’re trying to do a restaurant, whatever. Let’s look at your business, let’s look at your debt, let’s look at what you’ve got to invest, what you don’t have to invest, what are your assets monetarily and not monetarily because if you have family members will help you, that’s a big asset. But I can’t tell somebody, you know, they want this right away, how much is it going to cost me to get a website? I mean really go get a free template and see what it does for you. It will give you a big old doughnut because without the marketing plan behind it, without the organization, without thinking things through and you’re just throwing rice at the wall and hoping that some of it’s going to stick and that’s no way to run a business or try to support a family, uh, you know, in precarious times. Uh, so that’s what I do. First of all I say, look, let’s really work out what in the hell are you trying to do and why and why if somebody is not willing to talk about those things? I just tell them, look, God bless you have a nice day. Nothing personal. I just don’t have time to play tiddlywinks. I just, I just don’t, I’ve got other things to do. I could be working on another book. I could be chasing after my wife or whatever. Go watching the great courses or something I guess. Or it could be studying digital marketing. I mean, I just, I don’t have time for people who have unrealistic expectations. So the question is, how do you have realistic expectations realize that nothing that’s worth anything is immediate passive income. It’s not real. Not until you’re established, then you have the books and the courses and everything else, it doesn’t work affiliate marketing find once you have a brand and a business and everything already set up. I love, there’s a quote by Henry, David Thoreau wrote Walden and he has this wonderful quote. This is build your castles in the air for that is where they should be now. Lay your foundation beneath it. So that’s my first thing to say to new business owners, small business owners, coaches, consultants who want to increase revenue, get, get a grip on first. What it is that you think you want? Why do you want it? What are you willing to sacrifice to get there? And if you think it’s going to be free or $10 or whatever you’re going to go to fiber or whatever the thing is and get a free template, it doesn’t work that way. You can go ahead and do it and test out theories. Well, whatever you create on the internet last forever. So yeah, it’s better to think it through than it is to have, you know, a couple of jacked up websites associated with your name. It just is. So that’s what I do. And then I say, decide what you’re willing to exchange and return for this goal realistically if you want to be in great shape, you gotta get up and workout every hour, you know, an hour or two every day, you know. Um, so that’s what I always say and then determine your budget when you’re ready to commit and then are you able to accommodate new customers if and when they come so I put things in that order and I’m not gonna push my book. But I do think it’s good. I do think it’s a good decent book and I think you know, you can get that help online other places, but it’s about organizing a very deliberate structured thought out business plan before you start throwing things up in here and seeing if it’ll fall down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate that thought because having gone through what I’ve gone through in the last couple months as far as like trying to launch a business is kind of like I as much as I thought it through or thought I did anyways. I also didn’t, there are certain steps that if I’d really been, basically, if I had written myself out a checklist of all the advice that I’ve heard or read
Speaker 1: before
Speaker 2: and I went through that checklist before I launched business there, I would have probably learned a lot of the lessons that I’ve currently learned, such as like really making sure that you talked to your desired client or or market and finding out from them what they want. Because if I had done that I would have skipped one of the steps that I started with transactional.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it’s transactional, just like we’re talking here, you got to do that with your client before you agree to work with them or you will have hell to pay. There’s a, there’s a website called clients from hell. Um you can google it if people want to hear horror stories, I could tell you horror stories that you know, our beards would go down to the floor by the time I was done and they almost always came as a result of not screening the clients appropriately. It’s not, it’s not their fault because I’m agreeing to work with people, I don’t know, you know, so it really is a matter of getting to know that person first and saying, what are your goals? Why do you think these are your goals? Why what are you trying to accomplish? Um to the client? A lot of times they can think the questions are silly. But what I could always say is think of me as the doctor of marketing, I’m trying to cure your problems but I can’t diagnose the problem until we can talk. If you go to a doctor they say, well what’s going on? Do you have a pain? Where is the pain? Have you tried heat? Have you tried cold? Have you you know tried any medications, who have you seen already? How long has this been going on for? Who else is involved? What’s at stake? What happens if we do this or that You can’t you can’t solve a problem if you can’t know what caused it and and that’s a key key point, you know, I had one client. And and the reason for this is because I worked with in marketing agencies for like at least 20 Years If I Don’t Count Publishers. If I don’t count teaching and and being, you know, working with the college administration and everything. So when I freelanced in between, there was one case in particular, I was a freelancer and I talked to a one woman who said, well I want to be an artist. And I had paintings. So she showed me some of her paintings, beautiful paintings, beautiful paintings. So she wanted to sell her artwork great. I could create a website for you where you can sell your artwork online, like, etc. And we can, you know, I’m not going to talk about the tools because if I talk about the tools, it’s like the dentist telling me what kind of enamel he’s going to use. It doesn’t make any sense. I’m not mechanical, the mechanic. And tell me what the problem is. But I don’t know what he means.
Speaker 2: Have you actually had that happen? I’ve had that happen. Like, so we did this and this and that we use this. And I was like, I have no idea.
Speaker 1: You know, in my eye. Yeah. In fact, when I went to go get a hernia surgery, right? I was terrified because I’ve never done before. Right? So, I’m going to meet the surgeon. He was actually a very nice guy and he was number one in google. He was the only surgeon I found who was number one in google. And guess what? That’s how I found him. Okay. It rave reviews. It was very active online. So anyway, I go to see him and he starts telling me about, you know why I don’t have to worry about the mesh and and he uses the best mesh and all that. You have to worry and all that. And and I, all of a sudden I told me I got to tell you the truth doc. I’m feeling kind of lightheaded and my eyes start rolling up into my head and like poached eggs. And my wife looks at me and she’s like, you should really go wash your face. Go get some air for a couple minutes to come back. You’re thinking about the surgery. And I told him I said, sorry doc. I love you. I think you’re the greatest person in the world, right? Because you’re going to cut me open everything. I love you. I’m gonna go right to my face off and go walk around outside for a couple minutes. I’ll be right back because you’re talking to me about a medical procedure and the mashing the tendons all the don’t tell me. Don’t tell me just tell me what to do and if this or that. All right. So that’s my point. I never talk tools with clients. It doesn’t do any good to get intimidated. You know, it’s after a time we worked together maybe then. But so anyway, this particular client who wanted, she was an artist and so I Oh man, I could do that. That’s great. What’s a realistic budget range for you? So, she told me All right, I could work with that. I can work with that. And so we talked a couple of times to find out what’s the artwork that you want to sell, What perspectives do you want to be available and so on to work out the scope over the project. Right? Then she starts kind of like losing her temper and everything, ma’am. What’s wrong? Oh well, you know, I really didn’t tell you. But I’m kind of bipolar and I really really think I need this medication that the doctors have told me I need to take and I haven’t been taking it for a week or two. And I’m really upset with your questions. I don’t understand why you have to work on a schedule. And I said, well ma’am, it’s a great question. I work on a schedule because I have other clients in my pipeline, so to speak. I also have other responsibilities as an adult and a man and other things I need to do. I’m sure you can understand that. So I like to work, you know with agendas and organized deliberate manner. All my projects must be done within a certain timeline and so on. So I can get on to other things and she was living. I said, Ma’am, God bless you, I think you’re wonderful sacred human being. But I just don’t think we’re going to be a good fit for each other. I wish you all the best. God bless you. And this is 100% true. So we hung up the phone, I started receiving several 100 emails, cursing me every expletive you could think of. I forwarded them to the local authorities. I reported her to score who you know, I met her through there or something. I forget what the deal was that. I reported that I forwarded all the correspondence and everything and just said this is God’s way of saying screen. Who the f you talked to? Why? Why? You know, I’ve been to so many networking groups where I would go shake somebody’s hand and what do you do? I’m a digital marketing expert in the business world expert. Nice to meet you. Well, I don’t need growth. Nice to meet you by. How do you have a website? I don’t need anything by. That’s it.
Speaker 2: That was your first response to
Speaker 1: you. I’ve had that happen hundreds of times. Oh geez. And and then I would go and look at their website on my phone and of course it doesn’t work on your phone or it’s a horrible website or whatever and it’s not showing up or whatever and I’m like, man, I really could help them, but they’re not interested. So now when I meet people, I don’t tell them digital marketing because they think well I don’t need a website. I have a I have a free Wix website. Now. What I say is I’m a business growth expert and I help people grow their business. If that’s something of interest to you, let’s talk the tools that I use to them, it’s irrelevant
Speaker 2: brain. Okay. I get what you’re saying. So you’re saying when you say if you say digital marketing, they instantly start thinking tools? Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 1: I’ve had that happen a million times. I’ve had people talk to me. Well I read that S. C. O. You don’t need it, sir. What is the ceo, do you know what that means? Do you want to outrank competitors? Of course you do. That’s a Ceo. How could you tell me you don’t need that? They read an article or they heard something? Well why would you ever pay somebody for a website? When I could go to Wix or weebly, sir, That’s a free do it yourself template. It’s covered with ads for your competitors. You’re not going to rank number one in google if I tell you the reasons they won’t make any sense. Um Is it okay to tell you one more story. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. I’ll tell you one more quick story that illustrates this specific point. Okay uh my wife recently had cancer, I was very stressed out, as you can imagine, right? I mean it’s like oh my God. And so I was really really stressed out beyond you know, whatever I could articulate. Um And so anyway uh I had scheduled a consultation with a lawyer. I like lawyers personally because I have a tremendous amount of respect for what they do and the knowledge that they attained. Um So anyway I’m in the car and I’m gonna do this consultation on the phone with this lawyer, I’m waiting for my wife to come back from chemo when I’m sitting in the car and I’m really stressed out, I shouldn’t have done it because I didn’t have a lot of sleep the night before. I’m really stressed out and anxious. I want to know what in the world is what’s going to happen when she comes back, you know, there’s a reason I’m waiting in the car and not in the waiting room, right? You know? So I called the lawyer up and hi how are you, ma’am and what can I do to help you? I didn’t have my agenda. I was really stressed out of my mind, so I let her dictate question, what is she gonna do? She’s not an expert in digital marketing, right? She’s not expert in marketing. So she just starts telling me about her Wix website, she’s not getting any phone calls at all, brilliant lawyer, incredible experience. So she starts telling me how she’s getting ready to go take a job at Starbucks and everything. And she just asked me nothing but technical how to questions for about an hour and I answer every question as honestly as I can at the end of the hour she says I am completely overwhelmed, I have no idea what you said. It doesn’t make any sense to me at all. I’m just gonna go get a freakin job at Starbucks. I can’t deal with this, I’m not gonna spend money on something, I don’t understand. And I said I’m sorry you feel that way? God bless you have a good life. And I hung up the phone because whatever I would say at that point was moot. Yeah could I could have helped her You know, go to number one in Google for her city and state. But I lost that that connection instead of saying tell me what you’re trying to accomplish and why what does this mean to you? What’s the value? Who else is involved? Are you willing to invest in order to attain what you want? Can you do it? Can you emotionally let go of what you’ve already done in order to do something new? What can we work out in order to get you from Point A to point B. That you’re willing and able to do that, what do you need to feel? So you can accomplish this goal with me. We can do it together because I could tell her what you’re paying a per month on PPC. That’s not getting you anywhere. I’d be happy to work with you. Yeah, I’d be delighted to work with you because one new client to her, you and I could go buy a car. Yeah.
Speaker 2: That typically is the case for them, isn’t it? It reminds me of. So when I was working at the last company I was, I was with um and I was just really, this is where I was starting to learn a little bit more. We’ll say like the tools of the trade for marketing versus like the overall concept and all that. And I was starting to to um look into their their ad spend what they were doing and asking the question of like, well what budget do we have set aside and how are we doing it and this and this and this. And I’m like, okay, I didn’t know any better at the beginning. Then I went and bought a couple of S. E. O. Books and advertising books and just marketing books in general, reading, start listing podcast. And now I’m with like a fresh news, like a new set of lens. I’m looking at the strategy the company was doing. I’m going like, wow we are flushing a lot of money down the drain because there wasn’t a lot of leads coming in and they were very unqualified and I was the sales guy for, for a brand new region. So that’s why I was taking such a big interest in it.
Speaker 1: That was like a huge amount of
Speaker 2: stress to you. And I was like, wait, we shouldn’t be like either, we should change the strategy and and let me apply what I’m learning um, to help with the strategy so that we can get leads coming in so that I can help somebody or we should not be spending the money on ads and invest the money on other things that are going to attract people. So it was like content. So content marketing strategy, like if we’re not going to be optimizing our ad spend in our ads, then we should invested elsewhere. That’s going to generate a rate of return.
Speaker 1: Hello?
Speaker 2: I got shot down on all of it and I was just kind of like, all right. I guess I’ll just let them keep doing what they’re doing and I’ll control what I can control. Um, but yeah, that, that ended up lasting very long because I was just so frustrated with like, listen, like you’re expecting me to sell and I’m going out there and doing as much activities as I can. But if I don’t have that other flow of leads coming from paid or inbound,
Speaker 1: you’re chasing your tail,
Speaker 2: it’s making my job really difficult when your expectations are here, right? So yeah, it made it challenging. We parted ways. Uh, it’s unfortunate, but I learned a lot, right? And, and now that’s a big part of the the lessons that I’m trying to build upon. So like that’s why talking to guys like you who have been doing this for a while, especially on the digital side. Like I feel like I can take a lot of value out of that.
Speaker 1: I started working in website development when the internet first began. I mean I’d love to sit here and tell you, oh yeah I’m 25 or something, I’m not um you know, so I was working on a degree in english and to help me relax because I couldn’t read relax. One of the things that I loved was ruined for me by college courses. I couldn’t read anything without diagramming sentences and you know, thinking about the dramatic arc and why is the author doing this? I would have done it that differently, you know? So I couldn’t read for pleasure anymore. So I started looking at html, which is the type of very basic website programming for those who may not know. And I just started studying web design to help me relax. And uh my wife, we were dating back then we used to come and get me at the university computer lab and she would say it’s 10 p.m. You really need to come home by now. And I would look at the clock and be like, oh sorry, you’re right, you know, but you know, the more I’ve learned about digital marketing specifics and all the advances in digital marketing with chatbots and heat maps and so on and S Ceo and google analytics, the more he realized none of that could help anyone if you couldn’t lock down the Socratic method when you talk to a client and that’s as relevant and it’s real and it’s baseline for coaches as it is for a small business owner or consultant or therapist trying to get more leads if if the, if you and the supposed expert who you’re going to for help can’t have some kind of Socratic questioning in conversation back and forth. It’s focused and deliberate, trying to discern an objective and kind of get some grip on that. You’re not gonna get anywhere. You’re just throwing rice at the wall. Like I said, you’re chasing your tail, whatever. It’s just, it’s doing acts is doing an act, but there’s no rhyme or reason for it. It will be like me being on your podcast, but I have nothing. How are you today Dave, I’m doing great chris I don’t really have anything to talk about. You know, I don’t really have any business or anything or I have an idea for a business, but I haven’t done it yet. Chris look, just get your stopping. Uh that’s, you gotta have that foundation that’s really, really, really vital and, you know, being semi retired now and now, all this stuff with the coronavirus. It’s, it’s absolutely horrifying and I just decided, look, this is a good as time as any to just hunker down and focus in on getting back to basics, everything that I would tell someone else. Now, I’m going to apply to myself and get back to basics and that’s for any business owner, you can work online, you can have people working for you online. Um, I saw in the news today, Nasa and the U. S. Government now was experimenting and running tests on teleworking because he anticipates changes to say the least. You know, just coming. I didn’t
Speaker 2: even think of it that way. I mean, there’s there’s a lot of fear around it right now. But um yeah, the the implications to work and like have like if all of a sudden our city stopped and was like all in shutdown, could could the economy still move forward? Could answer would would be it could, but it would be a big transition for people to start working from home and businesses. A lot of businesses would be like, we have no idea how to do this
Speaker 1: Right? And it’s something that could have been doing 10 years ago. Yeah, They could have been doing it 10 years ago when I was a teacher and and and a college professor. I remember they would have these orientations that you’d have to go to have to go to these boring orientations right that are like only an hour long or something and you know what they’re going to talk about, You know what they’re going to do. And I remember saying why don’t you just do a video of the orientation? Get people to take the video watch the video right? And then sign off on it. You can do an adobe form where they signed off on it. Yes I saw the video they said they’re nowhere prepared to do that. I saw something today we’re more and more schools are shutting down because of the virus. The schools are shutting down. And who was it with? Somebody with the C. D. C. Or the W. H. O. Was saying you can do tell the education and tell the work realistically almost no school districts in America are prepared to do courses through the internet. No way. Could you imagine a teacher teaching their class from their home office? Mhm. Most can’t even chuck email without downloading viruses and it’s no slight to teachers. Sorry teachers I love you. But you know what I’m talking about. The technology for Most teachers are woefully inadequate. Government employees. Who was it? Um Who was it? Um um trump’s um Rudy Giuliani who is in charge of cyber security took his phone to the Apple store and they said to him Sarah why are you here in an apple store? You’re the highest level of government. You should be bringing your phone to the Apple store to be unlocked. Going to the N. S. A. Or the FBI. Or somebody we’re just somebody, you know, $10 an hour employee the Apple store and we’re taking your phone looking at it. So that’s the highest level of government. Every business in America should be teleworking working from home, enabling that. Whatever the job is. If its security, you can look at the cameras remotely and do that from home. I called the benefits provider today to ask a question and she said, yeah, we’re working from home. I I need to have a prescription filled. I called the doctor a couple of days ago I said could you please fill this prescription for at least six months for me So I can hunker down. They said this is the truth. They said no, We won’t do it because we we don’t believe in this coronavirus. Uh, we think it’s just like the flu. This is 100% true. We think it’s like the flu. This is what we read on the news on online. If you want your prescription refilled, you have to come in
Speaker 2: see whether like if
Speaker 1: they,
Speaker 2: the way I would look at that is you’re you’re entitled to to make comparisons and whatever. Like if you believe that you believe that that’s awesome. And and I’m not saying I believe in either one. But like what they did there was basically impose your their beliefs on you and saying no, we’re not gonna do that because what we, we think what you are asking of us is dumb because you’re not we believe and that that opens up a whole different can of worms that we could well save, maybe
Speaker 1: I’m tied up, I’m tied up very, very quickly and I live in the state of florida, the governor of florida said there’s a public health emergency. Yeah, that, but
Speaker 2: what I’m saying is more like that, that part, whether the decision around coronavirus is fine, it’s more like
Speaker 1: that. Supposing
Speaker 2: it’s a common thing, if you don’t believe in the same thing as the other person, you’re going to impose your beliefs on them. Again, it doesn’t like in this case there’s there’s there’s other things going on as far as like the legalities and and obviously like politicians enforcing decisions and whatever, but it’s the same idea of like I believe in this, I believe that eating meat, let’s just use this one. I believe eating meat as part of a healthy diet. There’s other people that wouldn’t believe that, but and they’ll impose their beliefs on me, that’s what I was getting too. And and I think that is a big problem in our society, is that we we need to be very mindful that everybody is entitled to believe whatever they believe because they believe in that based on the information they’ve gathered over their life.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And if we if we look at that perspective, I agree with you 100% and we looked at that perspective and say, well how is it relevant, you know, first of all coaches, you know, have to always remember that when they talk to their clients to not try to enforce their perspective and always kind of remember that who you’re talking to is like a ball of clay, you know, when it’s wet and warm and, and you can mod it, they’re coming to you full of fear, unsure about making a decision and what what they should do. Just as me going to the doctor, just me calling the doctor and saying, look, I see the news, it’s kind of concerning, I don’t want to die. Uh rather not go out if I don’t need to, you know, and you know, so yeah, did that doctor’s receptionist or whatever enforce their view on me. Absolutely. So what does that do to me as a client? Well, I have to go in to get my prescription now. So when I go, when I go get it tomorrow said, well let’s just get over with before the thing spreads, let’s go in and get it. So as soon as I go get it, I’m gone that doctor is going to get a one star review. I’m not going back because I thought it was, you know, obviously I didn’t care for that response. Um, but as a coach, Yeah, you want to build rapport and it’s and for me what I do with it being very technical, it’s even more important to not think in terms of tools or how to, and that’s very, very difficult because the first thing I’m thinking is okay, they’re telling me that they’ve done this and they’ve done that and they’re working with this and their budget is that you are the tools that I could use to get from Point A to Point B, then maybe I could work with that and how would I solve their problem if it’s technical and so on, and if you’re really, really good and financial matters, you could be thinking the same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just reflecting on some of my conversations I had in my pretty extended career in the world of finance and wealth management and and just remembering some of the conversations of breaking down the actual financial plan and strategy and investment strategy and this is why we’re investing in this and blah blah blah, and and just seeing people’s eyes kind of like, glaze over and go, yeah, I can’t do this, this is too much. And me being especially early on in my career, I was kind of like, what do you mean? Like, this is a fantastic financial plan. No, it is because that’s my education, that’s my back. Um but because I overwhelmed them, like you’re saying with like, the tools and and the how twos, It just kind of went, wow, this sounds like a lot of work and scary, I don’t want to do it, I don’t want to never
Speaker 1: mind, whoa, like just like the lawyer said to me, you know, so after that happened, that experience was just so depressing for me because I could see I could have really helped her. I mean I could have really turned things around very quickly and I just said from now on, I am not going to ever talk about how to do anything. We’ve got to have at least one or two conversations first to establish trust and rapport and get to the heart of the matter. You don’t have to love me and sing my praises, but I need to be able to understand why are you trying to do this? Who is involved? Um what’s at stake here? What is a realistic budget range? And they can’t tell you what a realistic budget ranges because they don’t know yet. Exactly. So first we have to build the framework for that, you know, So let’s let’s talk about how businesses, you know, get generate more leads in today’s modern society and how budgets work. Then you can tell me what is a realistic budget for you now that you know, it’s very similar to the whole doctor patient thing, you know. Uh you know, I the doctor doesn’t have to be brilliant, but you want to be able to talk to the doctor like and and feel like they care at least somewhat because so scary. So they would look at a financial expert probably in a very similar way because it’s their money, it’s their money. If I sat down and I told you all my financial situations and everything, all my concerns, um you would say, like, well, first of all, I need time to digest this and research it and, you know, when they get back to you and and I would expect no less. Yeah. You know, you can’t jump the gun. It’s crucial for any coach or consultant out there to screen first and foremost and build report before you can make any kind of improvement in anybody’s situation. Yeah, it’s a long winded answer, I’m sorry,
Speaker 2: it’s good. It was, I’m I’m like, I’m trying to digest it and process it right now, but you know, like sit here and part of the Canadian, that’s the
Speaker 1: Canadian right there. Process it. Yeah. Process it. I went to Toronto on our honeymoon because
Speaker 2: you said you would say process right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Process. Process yeah. About
Speaker 1: yeah. Um but I’m sorry, I’ll let you go ahead. And
Speaker 2: I was gonna say it’s been it’s been a pleasure and and a really fun conversation. I think there’s been some great advice and and and just good conversation in general, so to kind of wrap things up, David, I was wondering what would be the one thing that you would suggest the audience do as as a next step coming out of what we just talked
Speaker 1: about I would say clarify your expectations first and foremost, decide what your goals are, um and then decide how am I going to get from Point A to point B. If your goal is to be a successful profitable coach, define what that means to you as clearly as humanly possible. Visualize your ideal client, visualize and talk about what they would pay you in order to break even or start to generate profits, you know, decide what it means to you in terms of value and what you’re willing to trade and return to attain, attain or obtain this scenario and then whoever you work with, if you really want results, you work with a professional who has experience. Just if I go to a coach, what is the coach going to tell me? They’re going to say you want to talk to someone who is an experienced professional who knows wTF they’re doing so well. If you’re a coach and you’re trying to get more leads or get more attraction, you want to talk to someone who’s experienced and knows what they’re doing, it doesn’t have to be me, believe me, I’m fine, you know, but you want to work with someone who knows what they’re doing and has relevant experience, has references, they have testimonials, they’ve got work experience and they’re not afraid to show it to you and so on in case studies and so on and so forth. All coaches should have that, they should expect it from others as well, and so determine your goals, your objectives, what they are worth to you who and what you want, what you want to work with, work all that out and like the quote from thorough, uh, you know, build your castles in the air, that’s fine. But I have a foundation beneath them and think that through, that’s what I would say. And you know, I’m more than happy to answer questions if somebody has an honest, sincere question about what we’re discussing and they email me, I’m happy to get back to them. If they spare me, I’m gonna block them. If they, if they send me free mess that I don’t want, I will block you and whatever. But if they, hey, David, I have an honest God question about what you talked about with chris, I’m happy to get back to them and
Speaker 2: where what would be the best place for them to reach out to? Like, I guess probably your website would be,
Speaker 1: I would
Speaker 2: have links to everything kind of idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You can email me D. M. S dot blue. It’s a real domain name. I know a lot of people do a double take when I say that just my initials in my favorite color, but DNS dot blue, you can email me at gMS GMS dark blue. Cool. Okay. You can even call me at 4 to 4 David 01. I don’t care. It’s a google voice number, I’ll get the transcription of my email. So I think I’m gonna pick up you’re wrong. You know? Cool. Leave a message. But I’m always happy to help. If I can plug my book, the road to digital marketing profits is available on amazon and I’m so happy. It’s getting rave reviews. Um, so, you know, if that can be a benefit as well, so there’s help and paid help. So it’s out there for you.
Speaker 2: I’ll make sure all that. I’ll make sure all that’s in the show notes, but it’s been a pleasure and I really appreciate the conversation. Thanks David.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I had a great time. Take care. Okay,
Speaker 2: mm hmm. Thanks for listening to the get coach podcasts. If you’re looking for more information, you can head over to our website, which is get coached podcast dot com, you’ll find the show notes for this and every other episode there and if getting actual advice every week from professional coaches is something you want more of then make sure to subscribe. So you don’t miss any future episodes. Mhm. Mhm.

And here’s the audio version of my interview with Chris if you prefer to consume media in that format.