(00:01):

Welcome to the rebooting business podcast, where we discuss how businesses can reboot, rebuild and come back bigger and stronger than ever before in a post COVID-19 reality. And now here’s your host David summer flag.

(00:21):

And hello there. My name is David [inaudible]. You’re my guest, Leah Zimmerman. And you are listening to, or watching another episode of rebooting business. Are you lucky? This is episode number 27. We’re still a fledgling podcast just growing into adulthood as podcasts go. So I’d like to take this opportunity to welcome Leah to the podcast and let’s get into it as they say. Leah, can you please start off with your, a little bit of background on yourself with your personal professional background?

(01:12):

My personal professional backgrounds work backwards, or start from where, where I am. I’m now an executive coach of focuses on communication, presence and leadership. And that has led me to really having an expertise with families, a lot of conflict management and communication and leadership there. And that’s what I do now. I really also like helping people realize that their communication and their leadership can allow them to influence people and make a difference in ways they often feel stuck. They think they don’t get to change, but there’s really so much more around you that you can do. We typically give our power away a little bit by little bit. And I came to understanding this, excuse me, a minute. And just kind of tickled slowly over my own journey from when I was a child watching leaders and thinking there was different way because I would watch the teachers, the parents, and think what they’re doing is not helping the child be better or more successful.

(02:20):

And I was really passionate about that. And didn’t like when teachers would make children feel bad and make children feel worse and really as adults because adults really had just grown children who didn’t necessarily have it all together. Their way of being able to try to influence others is to often blame and shame or to guilt or choose emotional things or to just be bossy. And I just didn’t, I didn’t like any of that. So what I knew I wanted to do is be a different kind of adult. And I started with teaching and by being a different kind of teacher, I found that to that other kind of adult. And that was really important for myself, that there was a way to be an authority and compassion.

(03:05):

Now, how long were you a teacher for?

(03:08):

I was a full time teacher for five years in New York city. I taught first grade. And then when I moved to Texas, when my husband was in graduate school, I taught kindergarten and then second grade.

(03:22):

Oh yeah, the pre K and pre-K, they were just the sweetest little guys. I was a substitute teacher for awhile. And my favorite was always, yeah,

(03:36):

Kindergarten was the hard part about kindergarten as their attention span is really limited and they don’t know how to do anything. You have to teach them how to walk down the line. They don’t know how to follow the person in front of them. They’ll just all fan out when you reach the corner. So you really have to learn how to be explicit. You really have to learn how to break things down and you have to, for the most part, have something for them to focus on. And now we’re putting our attention here and now we’re putting our attention here. There’s no minute that you can just say, okay, everybody now just go take out your books and we’re going to do this fast, man. Let go. You have to be able to tell the direction really specifically

(04:17):

Seems like a lot of adults are like that.

(04:21):

Yeah.

(04:22):

I don’t know if that’s an exaggeration, but it does seem like that really?

(04:28):

Well, it’s great training. It’s great training to work in the younger grades. It’s hard to go down and grades. It’s easier to go up. Yeah.

(04:37):

What really struck me about substituting for pre-K was their openness. So when I was a substitute, I was a good deal heavier. I had a long goatee that was way down to here. And I remember some beautiful things. The children didn’t care. What other children look like? If your skin was lighter, if your skin was darker, they didn’t care. They would hold hands. They would hug. They didn’t care. It meant nothing to them. Literally that was striking. And if I wanted to get their attention, I would do it at the beginning of the day. At the very, very beginning, you had set the tone for the rest of the day, but I could do it on autopilot and just say, here’s my name? You know, mr. S because he couldn’t say my last name and I would talk to them about their feelings and what usually goes on in the class room. And how do they feel about it? What works, what doesn’t. And we would go over that. And then we would say, well, here are my rules for how things should be. I think, what do you guys think? And then we’re going to work that out. And now that you said it, you have to remember it. And I’m going to remind you all day.

(05:58):

It’s a good model of leadership. You were collaborative. You invited them into the process. You trust that they would have something worthwhile to say. And by doing that, that’s what teaching teaching is a leader. You don’t, you can’t go through teaching without meeting yourself in the classroom or meeting everything that’s in your way. And you either become a teacher who blames the students or blames the schools or blame something else for all the problems you find, or you become a teacher. Who’s struggling with yourself to do better, to figure out how not to lose your temper, to figure out how to be more patient, to figure out how to help this child and this child and this child, when you own, you know, always have plenty of the same curriculum for everyone. And the good teachers are never fully satisfied because there’s no way to fully do it.

(06:45):

Yeah. I would agree with that a hundred percent. What I learned from substituting for the older grades like high school was I didn’t like it because I could never get to that point that I got to with the pre K kids, they would, they would before even entering the room, they’re swinging chairs at each other you know, and just beat each other senseless. So I could never get to that point to begin with.

(07:16):

That’s really interesting, right? As we get older, the, our own culture supersedes that of a new leader who comes in and I, I substituted is after those five years of teaching, I then went to theater. I had been a dancer and I wanted to do more theater. And so once I had become the adults, I could be, I gave it to myself and I did theater. So for a lot of the early years, I was doing theater. I was substituting and I was substituting for some of my friends that I had taught with when I was back in New York. And it was different work with the older grades to get their buying in the way you built the relationship with them and the way you do it is different. And you also get to see some of what you’re describing has to do with the kind of leadership.

(07:59):

Frances Frei has a, a sentence that described leadership that I love that I won’t quote correctly. Cause I can’t memorize very well. But she says that a leader as a leader, you are, your goal is to have an impact on people and then present that will last until you’ve gone. What you’re really trying to do is change and help people to be somewhere so that when you’re not there anymore, they’re continuing in that same way. And when teachers had empowered their students to feel ownership of the classroom, when they were there, the class runs the same, but a teacher who’s a dictator or whose authoritarians, or it was just so central to the way the classroom runs the day. They’re not there. The whole thing will be ma’am because the teachers will hold it together. When the teacher has empowered that to the student, and this is the same thing you’ll see in management and the same thing you’ll see in parenting, when you’ve empowered the people to rise up, to be themselves, to take ownerships, that what they do every day does not depend on you being there and telling them what to do or satisfying or pleasing you.

(09:05):

It will continue more in your absence than when you are the holding all rains.

(09:12):

So, yeah. And then on a, you know, on a day to day basis, I remember that working for different marketing agencies. I remember when I was starting out, I remembered there was one person who was like, I’m a project lead or a team manager. So in marketing, you had the web developer, you had the security specialist, you had the content writer, you had different people doing different things. One person was in charge of advertising revenue and so on. And I remember we had this project manager and he would walk around and just how, you know, how are we doing? Everything’s working humming along like a well oiled machine. And he would come over and he would lean on you to see what you were doing. And you’d look over your shoulder. He would physically lean on United as intimidating way, but kind of like, you know, hang out with you.

(10:07):

And I remember getting some phone call and it was a stressful phone phone call. And I remember he came over, he got on the phone. He said, David’s been with us for a while. Now he knows what he’s doing. He’s very good at, this is what he says. And this is the reality. And I remember feeling very good about working there at that point, you know, and you don’t have to look over your shoulder, but then there’s been other places where it was the opposite. You don’t want to do anything that could cross the boss. You know,

(10:44):

It feels more in control, but the other one is actually more powerful.

(10:48):

Absolutely. The one that you know, I think that these dictatorial type of project managers or supervisors or bosses, whatever, I think they lose sight of the real cost of heavy turnaround.

(11:04):

Yes. And I don’t know that they even get to see themselves as related to it. The last place that I worked, I totally didn’t really get it. But the person who come to be president in the synagogue where I was working, had that top down, hierarchical dictator, pointedly. When I didn’t take him seriously, when he lost his temper, to me, it just looked like a man losing his temper about something. He thinks he told me that maybe he never really told me. And then he lost his temper around something big. And I knew that that was probably my job. And I’m pretty sure he still would say to himself that he made the right decision. And I, I see the difference in the organs. I see it differently and I wouldn’t have stayed working for someone like that. For sure. No way. I’m looking for someone who it’s not comfortable, but not only that you can’t trust that kind of a leader because they’re not raising up the other employees. They’re making all the other people, you work with feel a certain way, find a place you want to be.

(12:08):

No, it’s a very good point. How would you define coaching as far as what would you do? How would you define your type of coaching?

(12:22):

Well, let’s start with what the coaching is. Sometimes the play to start with a coaching is, is to start with what it’s not, it’s not counseling. There is a difference. Let’s say you have a backyard and now you have the speak whole big pit or some kind of ravine has appeared in your backyard. You need to fix that problem because if you don’t, you’re going to fall in, you’re going to go downward. It’s going to be bad. That might be counseling or say, dragging something from your past and it’s slow and you can’t move forward. That’s counseling. Now let’s say you have aspirations and you see this mountain you’re going to climb. And maybe you’re going to build a business. You are going to be a better human being. It’s going to, you’re going to feel freer and happier in your life.

(13:15):

And then you’re climbing the Mount Everest of whatever your goal is. But most people who climb Mount Everest, don’t take a guide with them and still train and have a coach to get them there. World-Class people in their field have coaches who helped them refine their talents and their skills and abilities so that they can be more precise so that things can land and be more how they want it to be. And so that’s how I would describe coaching. Coaching is an added thing. When you ask Spire, there are problems you might be facing. There are problems where you can’t make a decision, as clearly as you like, but maybe it doesn’t, that’s not necessarily a problem that could just be a dilemma puzzle that you’re encountering on a daily basis. It’s only a problem. If you think it’s a problem, otherwise, it’s just what you have to do.

(14:06):

Why does it, why does it seem, tell me if you disagree, because obviously I talk to people on, let’s say maybe every day, every other day, I see a real epidemic. Well, I’ve been seeing this for well over 20 years now of small business owners doing everything themselves. And then they wonder why they’re not getting the results that they wanted, right? Because you have to manage the business, run the business. And then on top of it, they’re trying to learn SEO, how to size it image for social media. How do I do all of these things, but you’re not getting the traction. So they’re taking things in bits and pieces rather than as a whole. What is it? And that’s just one example. I mean, there’s a million more,

(15:00):

The centers are stressed, running around, doing more things like crazy right now than they used to be. Is that what you’re saying?

(15:06):

I wouldn’t say that. It’s not, I wouldn’t say that it’s necessarily, it might be more now than it was five or 10 years ago. But I mean, obviously you’ve got the pandemic and political upheaval and depression 2.0, but I would, I saw this 20 years ago. Why do people do that?

(15:35):

From my experience and the people I’ve worked with most, a lot of the people who are behaving that way have a really bad boss and that bad boss is the way they talk to themselves in their head. The bad boss that I’ve worked with clients to fire the boss. I said, listen to how you’re talking to yourself. Would you ever stay with a boss to talk to you that way? Because they feel like they should have done. Here’s one of the big challenges when you’re a business owner or entrepreneur, you have a million things to do and a million other things you could be doing. So the minute you sit down to make a choice of what you’re doing, you’re keenly aware of all those other things you shouldn’t be doing. And then the doubts come, am I really doing all I should be doing?

(16:19):

I’m not finding time. I’m not getting to everything I’m not doing as well as I should. I’m not being as good as I can because that’s what we’ve learned also that those are the, those are the teachers and the voices that I said, I was learning how to shed from childhood because when we couldn’t get all our schoolwork done, it was our fault. When something couldn’t happen, right, the way it’s supposed to be, don’t make excuses. So what I see a lot of business owners who hold themselves to standards and a lot of really wonderful people who would never work for the boss, the way they treat themselves. And they’re running after impossible standards. One, two, there’s also this sense that if I’m not working hard, I don’t deserve it. I have to work hard to deserve something. These are the kinds of beliefs that become internalized that we carry with us.

(17:09):

And then there’s that, you know, there’s certain things I’m really good at doing and then ignoring the other things. And so I want to make myself feel better in my bliss of an ignorance, by just really committing to the things I have to do. Most business owners I’ve learned are running by the seat of their pants. And so they have to be running crazy because they don’t have enough financial planning ahead of them or a way to manage their profit, to know where they stand or that they’re going to be okay. But the other thing is that all relies on you when you’re in the business, when you own your own business, if you don’t have faith in yourself and your ability to move forward, and you think at any moment you could fuck up then you’re, there’s a kind of fear that you’re living with on a daily basis.

(17:54):

Yeah, it seems that too many business owners or entrepreneurs are they’re running around, putting out fires rather than running the fire department, if you will. And I remember I was a certified small business mentor for organization called score, which is a division of the United States, small business administration. And I remember, I mean, I’m getting two or three phone calls or emails every day from people where small business owners, service providers, nonprofits asking for help. And since I identify myself as a digital marketing person, that’s what I’m getting, which you would expect. And the number one issue I kept seeing on a daily basis was I’m not getting any phone calls. I’m not getting any emails with my free DIY template. I don’t know why. Right. And they would tell me, I’m spending two hours, sizing images, two hours writing what I think is going to be a good blog post, but it doesn’t look right. I’m not number one into Google. How do I do Facebook advertising? And I remember at one point, I said to somebody, you should be in the business, running the business, either delegating that to someone like me or someone else doing only what you can do because other people who enjoy that type of work are good at it can do it much quicker, more efficiently, but they’re not doing it. And after awhile I applied that same way of thinking to myself and just said, why am I doing this?

(19:48):

Shouldn’t I spend my time reading or producing content then talking to people who are specifically looking for everything they can get for free, who may or may not be committal at any point. And it’s no knock on that organization or the people maybe it is. I don’t know, but I just reached a point where I just said, this isn’t productive anymore because it’s almost like people are lining up, but it’s the same question, three or four times a day.

(20:23):

And do they really want the answer or is that question is that something that feels safer and more comfortable than what it would take to move forward?

(20:33):

Yeah. And the last person that I spoke to through that organization, I remember was a lawyer. And I have a lot of respect for the lawyers. And I remember talking to him and he said, well, my my high school son created this website for me. It’s not getting any leads. How do I fix it? How do I make it? You know? So it attracts more clients for me, but he was very clear. I’m not going to spend any money. I cannot spend any money. Everything has to be free. And I’m like, but you’re a lawyer. You’re you said you’re doing well. And upon probing, he was clear that he worked for a legacy law firm that really didn’t have a website either. He didn’t believe in digital marketing, it was a Fiat or something that kids do. So he saw no value in it and his son would help him along the way or whatever. So he didn’t really need it. Didn’t really believe in it. So I just said, I don’t really think I’m going to be able to help you, because if you want someone to just technically tell you how to, how to do something, Hey, I can’t do it. And be, I don’t want to do it cause you’re not receptive. It’s not fun for me. You don’t really have a business to grow and you’re not committed to it.

(21:58):

So I had that realization that the word commitment was really key.

(22:04):

Very key. There are a lot of people who talk about that in terms of mindset and entrepreneurship and commitment. And it also sounds listening to what you’re saying. There are a lot of people who get stuck in a scarcity mindset. I’m not going to have enough time. I’m not going to have enough money. So I can’t give out time. I can’t give out money. I can’t give up energy or mind space because I only have a limited amount and there won’t be more. And so I’m going to hold what I have really tight. But what happens is when we believe that this tightness is what’s in the way, and if we don’t believe there’s more, we don’t find it. We don’t look for it. We look for everything that confirms the belief. There isn’t enough. But if we believe that out there, there’s more to be earned. If we believe out there, there are people who can help us. If we believe that we have inner resources that when conflict comes or when there’s something in our way, and we want to get it, that we’ll be able to go for it. Then we show up entirely differently. And when we carry that confidence and faith with us, we have the conviction and the commitment that convinces other people and gets them on our side, supporting us.

(23:21):

I agree. Do you think that the need for coaching and the type of coaching you provide is greater now? Or do you think it’s the same or as it was a year ago?

(23:38):

Oh, that’s interesting. Well, I think one of the things coaching really is as a change, it helps you through change, helps you to adapt and to get out of a typical reaction, which will come from fear from threes are our flee. And so it’s natural that when things happen that are scary and there’s more change in the world that there’s more of a need. And I had seen me lightly, like, there’s always been an aid. We just didn’t know what it was or how to have it. We would look to elders. We would go to someone at the church. We’d find people who were more grounded and were more present who could share wisdom with us, but we didn’t necessarily call them coaches or mentors or people who are down the road. Now we can train and learn how to ask certain kinds of questions, how psychology works and the way I’m trained as in positive psychology, how do we help us move from? We’re pretty good. We’re doing okay to, to thriving, to going farther. So when there’s this kind of change, then it’s fair to say that there’s more, that need that’s necessary because there’s more say that again.

(24:54):

It seemed like there was more change of foot right now.

(24:57):

Yes. But I don’t know that people necessarily feel they have the resources for coaching. That I was talking to a client yesterday where I was listening to her and she’s been with me maybe three months and she really loves me. She calls her stepping stool and how she’s reaching new peaks and new Heights with it, which is the tagline that I’ve used. And she’s really, she fired the judge in her head, which is like that bad boss, but she was judging and always feeling, she had to answer to voice in her head of why she wasn’t doing something better or problems she was making. She described it once as yelling in her head. And she said that what she had given herself through coaching was a gift. It was a real gift and investment in herself. And it was something that would last her lifetime. And I thought, you know, that is, you know, the way she said it, us like, right. That, that is what it is. So what, when you think of it as what you have to invest right now, it’s a high ticket item per month. When you look at how it lasts you and changes your life and where it takes you for the rest of your life, it’s actually invaluable.

(26:12):

So, yeah. And that’s actually a question of seeing the longterm value rather than short term. It’s kind of cause and effect related. And I think so many people are, and I don’t know if this is something that’s global. I can only speak from what I see in America. I’ve heard different things that people in other cultures and other countries are perhaps different, but it seems like an addiction to immediate gratification. And so people could look at things and say, well, if I don’t see the immediate gratification in this, then it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s an expense, not an investment.

(27:01):

And it also depends on the business owner because most business owners, as I’ve learned they need the income and they don’t. And then when things get tighter, they don’t want to spend money expense that doesn’t seem necessary, but really what it does for the person. Who’s brave enough to say, I’m going to do this and invest in something I don’t know. And in results, I can’t see and buy something that I can’t take down from a shelf. It actually gives them what they need to be able to feel better and make that money back and have more profitability. And it’s interesting to see, cause it’s in different parts of the country, the coaches in different places that I know of are doing have clients that are doing differently and some who have been around for longer and some who are newer. And those of us who are there’s a coach that I know who calls himself main street leadership coach. And I think you said fewer clients. I think there are clients that are scared. He’s putting himself out there. So I’m sure he’s getting other kinds of clients, but that’s where, you know, that’s what I see to people who had been interested in it now go, Oh, I don’t know if I have that money anymore. I don’t know where that money’s going to go. I better hold on to it. And that’s exactly why coaching would be helpful and how it helps them to go to get more profitable sooner.

(28:27):

So who would you say would be an ideal coaching client or, you know, someone who could benefit the most from it? Would it be somebody who says I want to achieve more long term and I’m receptive or would it be a different type of personality?

(28:48):

Well, that’s an interesting question. I think the people who I’ve coached, who I’ve seen do really well with coaching are people who already come to know there’s some kind of change they want to get to, and they already have some kind of self reflective practice, a way of reflecting on who they are or what they’ve done or what they think. Maybe not a whole lot of self awareness, but there’s some kind of bent in that direction. And I think when that that’s the opening, because if they’re open to it, then once they start it, they’re going to benefit a whole lot from it. The people who don’t benefit are the people who may think they want change. But to change is to be someone they’re not ready to be anyone other than who they actually are.

(29:37):

That’s I could see a direct comparison. It’s like the difference between someone who calls me and will say, I need you to fix a widget. Just, you know, as an example, I need you to fix this broken widget or something, as opposed to the person saying, I need more customers at my restaurant, for example, what are the different ways that I can implement this and get this started? And let’s hit the ground running. Is that a fair analogy?

(30:18):

Well, I can be, but that person who says, I need to learn how to do that widget. If that’s a person who is still thinking about, well, this didn’t work, that didn’t work. Let me try this. They might just not know that the other question exists and that, and that I find is a lot of people. You said actually a whole nother way to approach this, instead of just thinking about that widget. What if you start to think about your entire question? What if you’re approaching this question entirely wrong? If I fix this widget, this will happen. Well, what’s the ultimate goal. Is there a faster, is there a different way? Is there a way that doesn’t even need that widget that simplifies everything for you? They don’t know those questions, so they don’t know to think about those answers.

(31:02):

I agree. 110%. I started just in, in my own consulting. I started really refining how I work with clients because I kept encountering that over and over again, looking at tools rather than looking at what you want to achieve as a process. And I realized that I had to be the one to implement that change by requiring that we have these, what I call big boy, big girl discussions, rather than fixate on tools, because I could fix a broken website, but it accomplishes nothing. If you don’t have a business and it bores me to tears. And then what, by the same token, making me look at why did I just do something that was boring?

(31:58):

That’s like the teacher who wants the copy fixed so that they can run all their copies of what they use to teach instead of really looking at whether those copies and the way they’re teaching with those topics is actually efficient for actually meeting the learning goals. Or is there another way to reach those learning goals, but what I’ve learned, cause I am longterm and I am more process oriented and I am really interested when I watched the students and seeing how they learn. But what I learned from teaching and working with lots of teachers is they were interested in what’s my responsibility. What am I supposed to deliver? How do I think I deliver it? And how do I watch to make sure that I did that? And that’s a very different way of thinking. And there is a lot parked hole thinking, let me do the parts and these parts lead to other parts.

(32:45):

And that will help me do things generally. Then there is thinking about the whole thing at once and seeing how it all fits together in a more systems kind of way. Now, I don’t think that’s because some people can and some people can’t. I think that some of us may find it despite how school teaches us to think, but it is the way curriculum is taught because that’s the conveyor belt method. You, this little piece that comes down the conveyor belt and this little piece that comes down, the conveyor belt and school has been created in that industrial model. And a lot of things are influenced by this industrial model, but this is not the 21st century model. The 21st century model does want to need the strategic thinking and how do we become collaborative? And how do we unleash more innovative and creative thinking so that we’re not just fitting things in the box and getting them done as they need to get done in the precise order asking the right questions makes the biggest difference.

(33:48):

And maybe it’s because I come from a Jewish upbringing where we learn to ask great questions. One teacher said, Lee, I think you’d just want to ask the question. And they’re being so confused. Like, isn’t that what I’m supposed to do? I was like, why was she as an accusation? This is what I always got attention for was asking hard questions, older grades that was certainly the person respected in the room, was the person who asked the difficult question when you’re studying the Talmud. And I don’t know if maybe it’s coming from that or just the Passover Seder, but asking the question is I enjoy that, that curiosity and investigation can be really genuine for me. And coaching is really about asking the questions that create the environment in which the coachee is going to have the insight, because let’s just think about it. When’s the last time you really followed unsolicited advice or someone acting like the expert telling you exactly what you should do to fix a problem. It doesn’t work.

(34:52):

Yeah. Usually if it’s unsolicited, yeah. It’s not heated. You know, and I was about to say that I would follow on solicited advice, but the reality is if you’re looking something up, it is solicited in a sense because you’re looking for it.

(35:17):

And here’s the difference. If you’re looking for information to solve a problem and you see it as something I’m looking, it’s a dilemma, it’s a puzzle. You don’t necessarily have the judgment of it. That there’s something wrong with it. But when somebody says, here’s how you fix that problem, it starts treating whatever you have going on as a problem that needs to be fixed. You’re going to resist it because you’re going to resist that judgment and you’re going to resist it. This person has an answer that you couldn’t find. And this is where a lot of tension comes from and a coach. Doesn’t a good coach, sets themselves up, not to be the one who’s going to have the answers, but maybe bring a little bit of a plate to help you find it more easily.

(36:03):

What would you call that approach? Is that, I mean, is that fair to call it a more gentle approach?

(36:10):

It may feel more gentle, but it’s, I’d say it’s more client centered because it’s less me telling you and directing you and it’s more me helping you. It really is the stepping stone. The question is the stepping stool that helps you find the next dancer. And I really don’t know. I really don’t know the answer to the questions that I ask. And I think I have an idea where that conversation is going sometimes and what I think will be answered. And sometimes it’s totally different. And I go with wherever the answer, that question went, it’s not like I asked the question and it’s to trap ice. Yeah, it was right. I knew you were to answer it that way because that’s not going to help a client feel empowered. Everything around coaching is empowering.

(36:53):

What do you think about asking you question that’s rhetorical, but you have to have the client who you’re trying to help recognize that true.

(37:06):

Well, it depends on the moment. I, I won’t say there’s no moment for a rhetorical question, but it’s not actually a real question. Most questions are coming from an investigator. You’re asked to be placed to help the client investigate through thinking. So if you can think of something, I mean it can model. So is there anything that you’re having to make a decision about?

(37:28):

Well, yeah. And then if I say, what are you trying to achieve mr. Or mrs. Business owner? I know intellectually the answer is going to be, I need more people coming into restaurant and eat more patients coming to a clinic. I need more people shopping my store, whatever it is, that’s rhetorical that part’s rhetorical, but there’s a nuance to that. And the nuance to that is there could be more depth. I need this because right.

(38:08):

My reflection would be that, here’s what I heard you say. You need bup, bup, bup, bup, bup. Now your client, isn’t thinking about what you need. So now can you reverse that? What does your client need? And tell me your client’s story. I don’t know. I can’t think about my client’s story. Okay. Well, just imagine somebody who’s coming to your store once, until I used, this is when they interview questions that I used to use them as interviewing teachers for the school where I was working. And one of the questions I would always ask is some experience you had of the child if they didn’t have teaching experience, but almost all of them had had some kind of group leading or teaching experience. Tell me the story of it from the child’s perspective while I was sitting in class one day and it was just getting so tiring, but then the teacher asked this question that really made me feel kind of pretty or whatever it is.

(39:04):

It’s really thinking. Can they connect with the experience of the other side? And that’s kind of, and I have found it challenging as a new business owner. I know as a coach, I learned in school, what I wanted to do, why somebody would want, it was something I hadn’t totally figured out and I’m constantly learning, but it’s a concept, but it’s a game of working around, okay, I know what I want, but now why do I what’s this client? What would this client want? And how does my website take them on a journey where just their attention go and where does it go next? Leading those kindergarten students again, it’s like, you have to have that attention for them to follow. You have to be guiding and leading them because they don’t know where else to paint.

(39:49):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think with it all came down to empathy with the pre-K kids. It always came down to empathy because that foundation was set at the beginning of let’s sit in a circle and whoever’s holding the pen or the toy we’re going to talk and that would easily kill an hour or two, which was also in my mind too, because, okay, I’ve got how many more hours left before nap time or recess. Right. Then I can order out. But I think having that structure was, was really, really helpful. Now, how does coaching for an individual differ from a group coaching session? Cause it seems to me like doing it in a group environment would be a tremendous amount more to bite off.

(40:47):

How is individual different than groups?

(40:50):

Yeah. Individual group counseling versus I’m sorry, individual counseling versus group counseling.

(40:55):

Well, I’d say coaching, I’m not certified to be

(40:58):

I’m excuse me, coaching.

(41:01):

Like a basketball coach can take you from where you are really talented and skilled to be really world-class on the, on the basketball court. But he’s not gonna be able to fix the problems you’d have from your past. They’re, they’re different in that winning group session, you really have to create a container where everyone feels safe and where people learn the boundaries of how to support each other. But how not to try to, I know the answer to your problem. I love doing group coaching actually. And I realized that it came naturally to me because I used to run my classrooms a lot. That way of how students could learn to support each other and how they could feel empowered in that way. So I’ve done some group coaching. When I do it with parents, I find it really strong and effective with parents because they can really support each other. The empathy in parenting is really strong, but I don’t run a lot of group coaching right now. I do more with a one on one.

(42:01):

Okay. Do you think the, and I don’t know if there is a typical, but is, would you think that the typical mom and pop small business would be a good fit for the type of coaching that you do?

(42:17):

Well, absolutely. I’ve virtually a lot of business owners and almost every business owner has some kind of something going on. I mean, if they in a lot of self development and they have a support elsewhere, they might not feel like they needed almost everyone would benefit from being able to learn, to trust their own decisions. A little bit more to have criteria in a way of seeing mirror the mirror in the mirror, what they’re doing so that they can step into their values and they can be in alignment so that they can be communicating more effectively. So they can be making the tweaks that they want to make to become more of who they think they can’t do. They’re criticizing themselves every day in their minds for not being cause you really can be that and you really can step into it. And it usually comes from trusting yourself a whole lot, firing the judge, firing the bad boss that lives in your head, all the critics, the people who you think are going to be looking over your shoulder, the blame and the shame the scarcity. And that’s really just having a container that can move you from now our negative thinking and open it to more resourceful, more positive, creative thinking. And that’s what entrepreneurs need. We need to be able to think more expansively and to find answers. The answers are always there. There’s always an answer. That’s what I’ve learned. And I’ve when I first started living in that way was like, at some point I’m going to find, there’s not really an answer. There’s really always an answer. And there really is. No,

(43:55):

If you look at it like a Rubik’s cube, there’s always some way to do it. And if you sleep on it, usually you can think of the next day.

(44:04):

Well, I haven’t had a Rubik’s cube, but I can help people through most of their social and emotional things to be happier.

(44:12):

Absolutely not. I’ve got two more real questions for you too. To what extent do you think a person’s feeling that they’re connected to a sense of purpose? How important is that? And just how they live day to day? Cause I’m fascinated by that. I remember reading man’s search for meaning by Viktor Frankl. And I thought it would make an incredible movie. I still do. But he said that he felt that someone’s ability to be happy and live a fulfilled life was directly tied to their sense of being connected to a larger purpose in life. That’s part one. And it’s a big question. So I want to hear what you think about that. And then I’ll go ahead and hit you with part two.

(45:09):

I think you’ve already answered the question. The question is maybe why is it like that? Or because we know what people say, know your why and that’s everything. Let’s think one of the questions that often comes up is are you doing this? Because you feel like you should be doing this because you think there’s somebody else or that judge over your shoulder things, you should be doing it because it’s what you really want him to be doing. And the problem is that we’re often living for the sheds, which is somebody else’s purpose and not from our own, what we really want to be doing. And if we find what we really want to be doing are key things we all want to be doing. And almost all of us want to be contributing in some way to make the world feel like we were here and we have our own ways of wanting to do that.

(46:03):

And what also happens is the thing you really want to do as well as the people you’ve admired. These are all clues of what you should be doing by your own. Should the people you admire is a clue, your values, things that craves and feel longing for are a clue to your purpose long to be doing. And I, for instance, I found that I’m a performer and I love to be on stage, but what it is is I love to be in the moment with people and their vulnerability in the realness. And I can do that coaching. So while I still miss the stage and that way of doing it, if I’m teaching or I’m coaching, there’s, there’s vamp, connecting, moving, and inspiring people that really connects with my purpose. So sometimes the thing that you’re pulled towards really wanting to do is a clue. That’s not the form it’s going to take, but it is a clue to where you’re drawn to the way you put yourself in the world and the way you want to show that you were here.

(47:06):

Okay. I think you answered that question. Very resoundingly. So my other part of this is let’s say that you have undefined aspirations. You what, like what you said, you’re doing things because you feel you should do it. Or perhaps you feel trapped that you have do it. We’ve all at one point or another have had jobs that we did for the money. Not because we got excited about doing it or that it John Milton used determined when you wrote paradise lost that he felt that writing paradise lost was milking him. And a lot of these, we’ve all had these jobs that we do it because we need to pay the rent or we need to pay the mortgage. How do you find that sweet spot where it encompasses your natural strengths or, or most pronounced attributes versus the market and you know, what, what you really want to do, where do you find where those factors intersect?

(48:26):

Well, it’s interesting because I’m thinking about that question and I have to tell you, honestly, I’ve never kept any of those jobs and I’ve rarely had them for a filler, something over the summer that I was doing. I am really bad at trying to do something just to make the money. I’m really good doing something. Cause I want to do it. And along with that, I have to say I’ve somehow also had the luck in my life that the balance of when I needed to work. And when I had a little more time to grow into what I wanted to do, like I am now with my coaching, that there’s been, there’s been a little bit of a balance and it’s it’s been allowed. So, but from what I know from my own experience, and what I find from coaching is you ask yourself this question. If I had all the money in the world, well, if money weren’t an object, what would I want to be doing? And sometimes you have to add the question. If, if I wasn’t about money and I had no fear, what would I be doing? Cause the fear holds us back. If I had no fear and money, wasn’t an issue what I really want to be doing.

(49:33):

Yes. And I think like what’s a TV show with Marie Kondo on Netflix where she says, this doesn’t bring me joy. If it doesn’t know what is she said, if it doesn’t spark joy, throw it away.

(49:49):

Yeah. But that’s the way to live your life. But here’s the thing we live in this cluster, enlightenment world, very disconnected we’re in our minds. Really get to thinking ourselves in lots of directions, but we don’t know how to do feel that our bodies have way more wisdom. We can take more implicit information and take it into our senses than we can consciously think it. So there’s no, we’re very disconnected. But when we connect and we let ourselves to lead by what sparks joy, what feels right? Maybe you can’t always do it right away. But you know, this is what feels right. This is what feels wrong. Okay. Let’s move our life more to what feels right. And when you can live that way, which can take some guts, cause that doesn’t have certainty to it and it doesn’t necessarily have the guaranteed stability or status to it. You feel happier, you feel more aligned, you feel more confident, you show up different.

(50:51):

Yeah. Cause it sparks joy. Yeah. yeah,

(50:58):

If there are people listening right now, think about a time when you did something and you just felt like I could be doing this. And a lot of times, if you think back to when you were a child, what did you really love to play? What kind of things did you do? But you really had the freedom to do those things. When are those times that you felt fully alive, those are the clues, you follow those breadcrumbs and the way that body feels, when you think of those things, you’re just learning to discern and you’re going hot and cold, hot and cold until you can go more hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. And it’s a process because you can’t always go straight, hot Benjamin Hardy, just put out am a blog that says, who are you slow boiling to become? Or something like that.

(51:48):

It’s a good question to ask. I don’t know the answer to that at face value. I think I would probably say the character from Fantasia. You remember the character from Fantasia where he would wave the wand and just create all types of wonderful. So I think if you know, and I know people listening or watching there and I’m hoping that they would internalize it and ask themselves the same question, you know, for me, it’s somewhere between, you know, being a digital marketing guy because I enjoy doing that. I love being a part of a business in, and I can’t say anything more sincerely that I love being able to be a part of a project and say, because of me, they’re getting de LUESD with phone calls and emails where they’re getting more contracts and he can handle. And I was a part of that. That’s a great feeling. I love that. But I also love being very creative. And so I go back and forth between being what’s called an slang term, but also looking at, you know, these great books on my shelf over here and saying, I’ve got to do more than that. I’ve got my whole version of brave new world that I want to write. I’ve got my own version of the Marshall Chronicles that I want to ride. Will it be as good as their voice? Maybe not.

(53:33):

You’re not responsible to put out a voice. That’s like somebody else’s responsible that the voice that’s the clearest version of your own.

(53:41):

Right? Exactly.

(53:43):

And then there’s a Jewish story that says rabbi, I think of this. I can’t think of who it is right now. Think of it when I’m not trying to think of it, but they’re at is dying and he looks terrified and the students say, what is it? What are you so afraid of you? Didn’t great. You’ve had a great life is said, I’m not afraid that I’m going to get there. And then I’m going to say, why weren’t you as good as Moses? I think they’re going to say, why aren’t you as good as, and his name, which is Mike I’m blanking on right now. So the question isn’t going to be, why weren’t you as good as so-and-so why weren’t you as good as who Leah is, why were, and she was good as who David is or was going to be. But that’s the question. And that’s what I think when you talk about writing the book, what gets in our way is thinking, are we going to be as good as are we going to be? And that’s not our responsibility when we can focus in, on connecting to what our clearest voice is, that voice is needed in the world. It may be responded to differently in some of that, it’s going to be the market forces and that particular moment and who got to see it and who resonated with it? The world needs it in some kind of way.

(54:51):

No. Well, I think you’ve given everybody watching. You’re loosening some good good substance to think about. Do you have any final thoughts and after that, how can people get in touch with you?

(55:10):

No, thank you. This was a really fun conversation. I tried to keep up with you. Yeah, I have. My, my website is stepping still coaching.com. Nope. But if you email me and step into still [email protected], stepping, still [email protected], then I will, I will send the link and you can download that. The freebie that I have, which is how to influence anybody anytime, anywhere, and has some of these nuggets in there.

(55:43):

Well, I had a blast talking with you and I think you had some really good insight and I appreciate your time very much. So I will tie things up and say for those viewing or listening, thank you so much for your time and for tuning into another episode of rebooting business. I am your humble host David summer Fleck [email protected]. And if you enjoyed this video, please give it a subscribe and a thumbs up so we can keep growing. And if you’re listening to this on your favorite podcast platform, give it a subscription. If you don’t mind, we can use all the help we can get and keep growing as well. So thank you everybody. Please stick around for another minute or two Leah. We can chat some more after this. Okay? And thank you out there. Listening or watching, please stay safe and tune into our next episode. Take care of money.

(56:45):

You’ve been listening to rebooting business, the podcast for about and by America’s small business owners who are ready to reboot and rebuild businesses in a post COVID-19 world to learn more about rebooting your business or be a guest on the podcast, please visit www.dms.blue today.

 

1. Personal and professional background and experience
2. What is your personal or professional definition of what a coach is and should be?
3. How does coaching differ from say therapy?
4. What are some of the benefits of coaching?
5. The world we’re in right now is rife with political upheaval, a Depression Era economy, on top of a pandemic. Is the need for coaching more relevant now or less so and why?
6. How did you come to decide to be a coach?
7. How would you describe the type of coaching you provide and how does that type differ from what others may offer?
8. Who would you say is a) an ideal coaching client for you and b) someone who can directly benefit from coaching?
9. How do you tell during a complimentary initial consultation a) if a client is good fit for you as a coach and b) how you would walk them through to that point where you can get them to put aside walls and be able to work with them constructively?
10. How does coaching work per se? How many sessions does the average require before they gain insights needed to move the needle?
11. How does individual coaching differ from group coaching? In what ways?
12. Would a typical “mom and pop” small business be an ideal client for coaching? If yes, how would you present that in such a way that they would see it as a ROI investment rather than as one more added expense?
13. Many entrepreneurs and small business owners are very hesitant to commit to growing a business, whether that means investing for growth, to trying new processes. In many cases, they are not sold on the business idea themselves or have an actual existing business but are price-shopping for undefined end-goals. How do you as a coach break through that unwillingness to take action that could result in making progress?
14. Many people have held jobs in order to pay bills, not really doing what they love so much as doing what they feel they can do and have to do. How can someone with perhaps undefined aspirations, hoping and wanting to do more in life, find that “sweet spot” and then be prepared to go toward that?
15. Final thoughts?
16. How others can reach out to learn more?